Southern Lower Peninsula Deer Advisory Team

Team Members:

Jason Blitchok, Michigan Hunters Alliance (Primary); Michae Strunk, Michigan Hunters Alliance (Alternate); DavidCurtis, Sportsmen of Michigan; James DeClerck, Saginaw Field and Stream Club; Duane Eldred, Eaton County Farm Bureau; Scott Homrich, Southeast Michigan Chapter, Quality Deer Management Association (Primary); Chad Chrysler, Southeast Michigan Chapter, Quality Deer Management Association (Alternate); John Long, Barry County Pheasants Forever; Randy Severance, United Sportsmen Alliance (Primary); Thomas Lounsbury, United Sportsmen Alliance (Alternate); Merle Shepard, Safari Club International (Primary); Michael Wills, Safari Club International (Alternate); Pete Squibb, Society of American Foresters; Amy Trotter, Michigan United Conservation Clubs; Zane Walker, MI Building & Construction Trades Council (Primary); Andrew Mosser, MI Building & Construction Trades Council (Primary); Dustin Damon, Calhoun County; Eric Erickson, Cass County; Jeff Kunkel, Hillsdale County; Thomas Morang, Macomb County; Shannon Smith, Livingston County

Public Comments to the Southern Lower Peninsula Advisory Team

To have comments put on this site for team members to read, please send your comments to michdeer@gmail.com with the subject line reading "Southern Lower RDAT."

February 22, 2012

Dear SL Deer Advisory Team:

I hunt mostly public lands in Washtenaw and Jackson County. Deer levels seem about the same there. However in areas of public land ownership population levels can vary considerably. I'd wish for more fine-grained control, but it takes data and people to administer, and that takes money. For example people might really be seeing less deer in areas where folks own modest parcels (about 40 acres), but can shoot every deer they see. Baiting increases this problem. Maybe I don't see a way around that except to tie the deer tags to the land rather than to the hunter, but that might be almost impossible to get done in Michigan. Too scientific.

To obtain more money to permit more local and scientific management, I humbly suggest $5/year registration on every vehicle, which would raise more money than opt-in as it now operates. Let out of state vehicles come for free - they will be our guests. Let the state advertise that. A side result: never check another license plate again, ever. Instead, do something useful. I grant this is beyond the scope of the Advisory Team, but I am lobbying the reader anyway.

For public land, maybe I could live with a one buck per year rule, or giving hunters a second one only every other year if that is going too far. There my concern is about the numbers of adult males, and also that we may have already altered deer genetics via "high-grading". More of the males seem runty - yes, just anecdote, so if there's data cough it up. There's more reason for concern in the Southern Lower where having older males is easier than areas of greater predation and less forage. I hope someone is at least collecting data that could address this. In general, I'd like more experimenting: try some different regs in one of the counties, and see what happens. Some of this takes money though.

Finally, the deer exclusion areas on state lands should be larger. Results of being serious about that has brought interesting findings in Pennsylvania. Also, have the volunteer opportunities be more prominent on DNRE web pages, hunting and fishing guides, and when buying licenses on-line. We need many more hunters to show up. Again, these are not your team's top concerns, but I am appealing to you as influential individuals.

Best wishes on your work,

Rork Kuick

Dexter, MI

February 9, 2012

To the SL RDAT and in response to Mr. Kirk Nartker’s letter,

I just read your letter about your QDM Co-Ops in Laingsburg, MI. That’s great to hear. I am all about QDM as a whole and your Co-Op seems to know it’s about micro managing area deer populations and also Habitat Improvement. That is awesome and is proof that if everyone knows what QDM is all about then it can be a GREAT Managing tool!

Now around here in St. Clair County and I hear it a lot from people all around Michigan they turn their heads up at the sound of QDM. It’s because of two things. They don’t know what it is as a whole and there are some QDM Members really setting a bad example for QDM. There was a guy speaking at a Big Buck Contest around here, speaking for QDM. He spoke last year and I was not there. Almost everyone there didn’t seem happy or interested in him. I remember him saying “ I am sick of only seeing scrawny bucks, you have to lower the population and Buck to Doe Ratio and shoot them Does, and lastly he had these Big Red QDM signs for only $3 and no one will Trespass if you have one of these signs....”

He spoke after I did and I spoke about my terrible Season seeing only 19 deer and I hunted 72 days this season! I have a short survey I asked all the hunters to fill out to see if everyone was having a bad season as far as the deer seeming to be gone. A lot of heads were shaking in agreement to what I was saying and I have close to 50 Surveys agreeing saying that the deer seem to have disappeared around here.

So what I am getting at is there is a lot of WRONG Information and Beliefs about what QDM is all about and if the DNR chooses to try and manage smaller areas with the QDM concept there needs to be A LOT of RIGHT information given out about what QDM really is. There’s too many folks that think QDM people just shoot all the Does and that’s why they now hunt for weeks without even seeing one deer. The DNR and the RDAT has a tough job in front of them and I know they will do what’s right for Hunting and our Deer Herd!

I am meeting with the Acting Wildlife Biologist next month (March) and I will be giving her these survey’s and telling her everything I observed around my area. I just want to make Deer Hunting Enjoyable and what makes it enjoyable to me is actually seeing deer to watch while I am in my Blind. Shooting a Big Buck is just a Bonus. Everyone has a personal goal about what deer hunting is and that is ok. Again if there is any other way I can help the RDAT has the email I sent this from and I will be more than happy to help!

Good Luck Everyone on February 17, 2012!

December 16, 2011

Dear SL RDAT members,

    I would just like to voice my opinion on our local deer herd. I have read the comments from some of the other concerned hunters in SL Michigan. I don't envy the DNR for having to set regulations, just look at the diversity in the comments from people in the same general area ( SE lower ). Some are having problems seeing deer, and others have way too many, even with substantial doe harvests. What's a local hunter to do?

   I can tell you what we've done here locally in Clinton County, and the hunters are very enthusiastic about the results. We started a Quality Deer Management Co-operative. It started out quite small, ( aprox. 2000 acres and 20 hunters ) but has continued to grow each year with a nearly 100% satisfaction rating amongst our hunters. It has grown to over 8,000 acres and over 100 hunters and land owners in just 5 years.

(Something must be working)

   We take population estimates and devise a plan for our doe harvests. Some areas of our co-op have over 60 deer/sq. mi. and others have maybe 25/sq. mi. We take a close look at micro managing our local herd. Just because the DNR issues the tags, doesn't mean they should be used without regard to local conditions. By having a co-operative in your area, things like doe harvest numbers and size of bucks targeted, can be controlled so much better than just a scattergun approach to management. It (QDM) has spread across our county and we now have around 15 co-ops in the area. They vary in size from around 1500 acres to over 10,000 acres. And of course the larger the area, the more control you have over your local herd.

   I've read many comments from people asking for a more micro managed approach to deer hunting, a more localized way of controlling deer numbers, whether to move numbers up or down. I believe totally, that this is the way to go. This is the future of deer hunting here in Michigan. I also believe hunters in Michigan will embrace this kind of management. Our co-op satisfaction surveys have repeatedly showed nearly 100% satisfaction level, whether the hunter harvested a buck or not. The DNR can't say that about traditional deer management.

   The great thing about co-ops is you can set your own guidelines. Numbers of does harvested/sq. mile. Size of bucks to be harvested. (4pts on a side, 3 on a side, 15" spread credit) Whatever your local hunters decide, it's up to them.

   Of course the SL RDAT can't make people start up a co-op. But I would suggest you use them as a model for future consideration when making any changes to the deer hunting regulations. They are working, it's a simple fact, and the hunters who are in them, never want to go back to traditional management.

November 28, 2011

Hello Southern Lower RDAT!

I am writing this with great concern regarding the Deer Population in St. Clair County, DMU 074. I live and hunt in this county and today was my 31st day in a row hunting and in them 31 days I have seen just 2 Does and let them walk.

The DNR said in a post on Facebook that St. Clair county is at the population level they wanted it at that's why they only had 9,000 Private land Doe Permits....that a lot when there's hardly any deer left.

The hunters that shoot Does are shooting the Big ones, our Breeding Stock, and this years fawns will be left to maybe give birth to a fawn but most probably won't. If your area has been like mine I bet you didn't see many fawns this summer. I had 2 Fawns on all my cameras this whole year... Worst part is next hunting season is going to be worse!

I’d like to see the DNR cancel this years late Doe Season and work really hard at getting real numbers of how many deer are really left.

My suggestion based on past proof from past records on the DNR website is we need say 2 years of no Doe Permits and one Buck Tag to get the population back up before we lose all the deer in this County.

After the 2 years then each hunter shoot one Doe and one Buck should be more than enough Management to meet an appropriate Deer Population Level for our County. If the population explodes,  then based on Hunter Sightings and Harvest we could go back to the Lottery System for any extra Doe permits needed.

I am by far an expert and above is just my concerns and observations and I am open to anything that will help the deer population rebound in DMU 074. The unlimited  or excessive Doe Permits across the whole Southern Michigan is going to wipe out our Deer. I have heard the same reports from Saginaw Area, Lapeer Area, Sanilac County Area...and I am sure there are more. I agree some areas might have too many deer but most areas Hunters are not seeing anything in SE Michigan.

With St. Clair County being I think 95% Private Land I would gladly agree to join the SE RDAT and be the representative for St. Clair County and go about the area and get information and observations directly from property owners and hunters to determine what is going on here with the deer population before it’s too late. In my spare time I would be willing to go door to door with surveys and ask both hunters and non hunters to report on their deer sightings and thoughts.

What concerns me most is if you look back at History and History doesn’t lie...before we really managed hunting and people shot whatever they wanted the Deer almost got wiped out by the 1970’s. Then we started managing Bucks and Does taken and things improved a lot.

Now the only times there were almost “Unlimited Doe Permits” was before management times (and deer were wiped out almost) and NOW....that scares me and makes me scared for the future of Deer Hunting.

Thanks for your time and feel free to contact me anytime!
Donald M. McChristian Jr.

email: captaindon@michiganoutdoorsman.com

November 26, 2011

To whom it may concern,
I live in St. Clair county my name is Sarah Schweihofer I'm 15 years old and I have a real problem with how this state is ruining hunting for me. This early doe season in September and the youth hunt is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. I am at the point of never hunting in this state again. The people in this area have no respect for hunting at all they shoot everything that moves. How do you expect to have a balanced deer herd when you kill every deer that walks. My sister, brother, and I all feel the same way. We don't shoot year and a half old bucks, fawns, or does because the neighbors shoot everyone of them anyways. We believe in having a balanced herd with at least some two and a half old bucks but this will never happen when you open a season from the middle of September thru January first. I believe the best solution to all of this is what my dad said, we need to start a website and see what other hunters feel this way and ask them to not hunt next year and take the thirty dollars that they spend on their hunting licences and pool them all together and sue the state of Michigan and every car insurance company that was involved in putting all these doe permits out that have ruined hunting. Its a crying shame that a young person like myself that likes to hunt but when they go hunting all they see is orphaned fawns and dead ones on the way out from coyotes because they have no parents left to help protect them. If your really in to promoting hunting for young people this is no way to do it when you sit there and don't see anything gets pretty boring. Especially when my dad has food plots at every one of our blinds that cost a lot of money. Between my parents and my grandparents we own a 176 acres of hunting land. The whole problem is that everyone in the area shoots everything that they see and can because you give them the permits to do so. Any suggestions? I think my dads suggestions are pretty good. He also said we have one other alternative, we can give our money to another state and hunt there where they actually care about natural resources. My dad already drives 1300 hundred miles each year to pheasant hunt. Between the money for our food plots, taxes on this land, and the amount of fuel we use to drive back and forth to our property would more than surely pay for a trip out of state including the licences. Then we would actually be able to see a deer that are two and half to three and a half years old that are matured.  keep it up because me and my family don't know if were buying licences in this state next year. What for, theres very few left!!!

November 21, 2011

Hello,

I have never had the urge to reach our for help on the deer herd until now.

I have been hunting in Cass County for seven years.  Every year the herd and deer sightings have declined by all around us but this year has been the WORST yet.  In days past I could sit in my tree stands and have sightings of over 20 deer a day.  This year I hunted five days from 15th to the 20th and saw a total of 10 deer with an average of 8 hours a day in the woods.  The deer herd is 2/3rds less than it was in very recent years.  We can SEE it, or not see it in this case.

I hunt with a group of seven in and around some 100 acres of land.  First year we hunted together six of us had a respectable buck  (respectable being 2 years or older) within the first three days of hunting.  This year we were skunked!  ZERO deer for five days!  Amazing.

To make matters worse, one of our southern access hunting spots had two individuals sitting on our property line and they killed three does/fawns opening day.  We know this since we watched them shoot them, on others land too, and then continued to shoot more does every day for the next three days.  Two people cannot and do not need a doe or two a day, but they can get tags for that?  Our area can not support that kind of doe killing and its highly frustrating to us.

We have been trying so hard to manage our deer herd to get a great doe to buck ratio AND to let the small bucks walk.  However, if all our neighbors are killing off small bucks and all the does, then heck lets shoot them all!  Highly frustrated here.

I have reports from northern to lower counties that the deer numbers are drastically low and getting worse every year.  See ads in Outdoor Life Magazine September and December issues.  This is not just a Michigan thing, it’s a nationwide thing, however Michigan is now fallen off the top 10 deer states to hunt in?  Why?  Because of a few MAJOR factors…Predators, mainly Coyotes AND the poorly managed deer tag/kill ratio allowed for hunters in and out of residence in Michigan.

My question to you is, What is being done and why does it seem so hard to see what is happening to the deer herd.  The southern counties and hunters alike are getting highly frustrated and concerned.  This is a huge source of income to the locals and the state.  Something needs to be done to preserve our deer herd.

Here are but a few of my suggestions:

Just a few ideas that may help.

Signed,

One highly frustrated hunter.

Dale R. Hamill
Managing Partner
Pinnacle Lending Group LLC.
(616) 245-2110 ext 103

November 16, 2011

Here are my suggestions:
1) Split the Antrim County into 2 DMU's east and west and stop the antlerless permits
2) Keep the firearm opener Nov 15th
3) Shorten bow season
4) One buck limit

Dave Sanders

July 27, 2011

Good afternoon,

I am an avid hunter and fisherman here in Howell, Michigan and have hunted here since 1975. The hunting seasons that have allowed us to harvest deer in early September thru Jan. 1st have offered us a unique opportunity to reduce the over grown deer herd. My question is this: What would it take for an experimental season to be allowed in January for Doe only. I understand that most doe are pregnant at this stage of the year yet I also understand that those fawns born in early and mid summer add to our already over populated deer population.

I and fellow hunters here in Southern Michigan fill multiple tags during all the deer hunts allowed. Many of us are disturbed by the numbers of deer that still populate our farmlands and woodlands even after multiple numbers of deer were harvested during our hunts. At times, it is as if for every deer we harvest, a few replace the deer harvested. A new license for a January hunt would provide revenue for the state and our businesses as well as a reduction in the already over populated herd.

I feel our state officials, our law enforcement officials and our citizens are doing everything possible to reduce and stabalize our deer herd. This is one possible idea that we hunters here in Livingston County have to offer for review.

Thank you for your service and efforts,

Sean Knudsen and Family
Howell, Michigan